Indie free?

[zknack]

Rave- Seriously?

this is the solution?:


Also, we've received several requests on extending the 50% discount off GameCore 2.5 Pro for previous purchasers of GameCore Indie/Pro and the 25% discount off for new purchasers of GameCore 2.5 Pro until the end of summer, so we've extended the offer to expire on September 1, 2010!   

Wow.

Yup. I think I'm done here unless something realistic comes up.

You didn't just miss the point of our posts- you missed the whole conversation apparently.  I'll be putting together an email for my friends in the Art Institutes administration shortly in regards to what they can expect support wise with thinking of deploying it through the Game Design program.

Not impressed.

[acocq]

@zknack:

I've got to agree with your assessment ...

Especially an announcement that GC3.0 would be available with a 50% discount (if you plunk down cash now) is borderlining on silly.

If GC 3.0 release is imminent (within the next 6-9 months), then what's the point of buying PRO NOW ?  Unless GC 3.0 will be significantly more expensive (which would me a marketing suicide attempt), oldtimers would get 50% discount now and 50% discount for 3.0 ... which amounts to 100% for GC 3.0 ... if you take them up on their offer at the 25% level, then you end up paying 125% for GC 3.0.

And if GC 3.0 is NOT "around the corner", then what is it exactly that people are supposed to buy into ? 

Based on what I have seen in terms of engine development  (not only with GC, but also with most other engines), there probably isn't even a fixed feature list ... many times, new releases aren't the result of disciplined, rigid engineering but rather a lose collection of artistic ideas ... especially if you do not have a strong, sizable company doing the software development.

And no ... I'm not trying to belittle what Gekido etc. have produced (which I believe to be a fine engine with serious potential) ... but I've been working in corporate environments long enough to understand the need for proper risk management and this is something ALL small companies fail at.  In many of those companies, if the lead programmer has an accident and is out of commission for 18 months, then all development & bug-fixing will halt completely.

But back to the topic at hand:
At this point, even if I had $750 to spend, I would hold off until I can get a clear indication as to where GC 3.0 is going before making any move ... because even if I wanted to develop a top notch game now, it would require a significant amount of time and I find it difficult why the 2.5 PRO features are a must have to start / continue development ...

I think Helios is "overcomplicating" this whole thing in an attempt to "do the right thing" - while at the same time trying desperately to generate some needed cashflow ...

As always, just my 2 cents worth ...

[pixel_legolas]

Could someone please clearify what an indie game maker really is?

There was a indie version and a pro version because an indie is according to me a solo person (or small team) with very limited budget. That almost includes all of us. The pro version is not even something we should look at, because it is a pro version.

The indie version should satisfy our needs as little people with little money. The pro version should be for larger groups with more money....or am I missing something?

I am totally satisfied with a indie version, you can still create games with it. The only thing I really need is a indie version with good documentation, active community, good help in forum and perhaps some well written templates that are easy to understand and modify.

If and when my game becomes so hyped that I can make a larger group, then the pro version wont be a problem any more.

Am I the only thinking like this?

[zknack]

Pixel,

I do not disagree with you necessarily- I do think though, that we do have a right to feel a bit 'taken' with the current changes, and especially with the lack of commentary.

The lack of commentary meaning many things: lack of response here, lack of providing templates, examples, and improvements that have been promised since BV days...

Templates and examples we've been lied to about include:
* rudimentary RTS system with example on how to do tech trees
* a more in-depth weapons tutorial (for customized weapons)
* Gekido's claimed side scrolling fighter template
* RPG template
* diablo-esque template (movement, attacking, and inventory system)
* how many others that have been claimed or promised

And before you try to say I'm lying- we've covered these in BV days - these were said that they ****would**** be put out to the community.

NEVER HAPPENED.

Doc examples and tutorials- Ross has been doing decent, but what happened to the claims of things being fully fleshed out *quickly* back when it transitioned? QUICKLY IT HAS NOT BEEN.

What about access to the old BV forum to download so many community resources we were told would be fixed many a time in the transition- THAT NEVER HAPPENED.

BV days we were under the impression we'd have upgrades for the life of the program. They've tried to circumvent this by renaming. (cough).

THERE WAS a free version of BV back in the day. It had most of the features of the 'pro' version, but not all. Most of us here bought the intermediate version, under the impression we'd have updates, and access in a medium tier for the engine's life. Heck, that's what made me choose GC/BV over Torque.

Now, we're dropped, quite unceremoniously into the free category. The 'peace offering' is a freaking joke. Why would we not be entitled to be a bit unhappy? No kudos, no credits in the 'game core store', no bonus in reality, at all.


Does that not make a bit of sense?

[pixel_legolas]

I totally agree. I will not choose pro because I am still a indie. As I make a concious decision not to go pro I automatically get no benefit. That is a great shame but I also like this engine so much I will still stick with it.

I have no clue of what we indie people could get to feel happy again, but I am happy to have helped gekido group a little to grow as a company. I wish to get something back for it but I do not expect it.

A bonus is a bonus but if not, I still have in my mind that I am still using a engine that I love.

I am just trying to stay positive and I know that some recent threads have stirred up the bee-hive of helios and I am sure something good will come out for all of us.

As I stated before I will just be glad if we have more members and more docs etc. That is worth more than a pro license

Well, hope I can rub of som optimism on you alll

[acocq]

Could someone please clearify what an indie game maker really is?

Yes ...   

I think you are quite correct in your assessment, but the whole point is that although there is an INDIE and a PRO version, indies are baited to buy PRO ... I can't imagine too many "pro-companies" buying the PRO version off the website (just a guess on my part) ... "real" game development companies will have their production environment planned out and not rely on haphhazardly advertised PRO versions of fairly unknown engines without a solid reputation in the gaming industry.  And please don't anyone start to argue that there have been a couple of commercial titles that were made with GC ... that's not what I am talking about.

Or does anyone seriously think that EA Games will suddenly start to endorse GameCore over other engine alternatives ?  Or that "Battlefield III" would be based on the GameCore engine ?  If any of you have played Battlefield:Bad Company 2, you know what PRO engines deliver today ... 

At the same time, I'm with Pixel on this one ... I really like working with GC (although UDK is becoming a serious contender for me really, really quickly) and I believe it has all the features that I really need (actually it has more, I think).  But it just is NOT in the same league as for example UDK (I keep mentioning UDK because - as was pointed out - other engines such as Unity require some cash investment and others such as 3D GameStudio have their own limitations and quirks). 

And I WILL continue to enjoy the stuff I do in GameCore 

[Architex]

Welp, I'd hate to be a downer on everyone here, but I've got one last thing to say before I take off.  Due to ill frustrations with decisions from this company, I've uninstalled GC and am going back to FPSCreator unfortunately.  I'm not tolerating this whole, "you have to buy GC3.0" blah blah blah.  I'm supposed to get free updates, and they failed to deliver, they keep renaming and changing the rules <---- this is also against the agreements of the software ( you know, like that long ass message some people dont care to read before installing something and they have to choose whether they accept or not and all that junk ).  So simply put, I'm done.  It's been a pleasure working with everybody, and I've had a good time helping, sharing ss's, etc.  I just cant take the fact that I've been waiting along about a year now for an update, or something to improve on MP capabilities, but this is the last straw.  Later dudes. 

[ddesmond]

I don't understand why Helios would expect people to buy GC 3 when 2.5 isn't there yet. With almost no game building knowledge I was attracted to Gamecore.  With 20+ years of development experience, I find the documentation is inadequate and I really don't think the excuse that GC is knew is really acceptable. No roadmap, I was sold on the UI and hoped everything else would fall into place.

I typically spend more on my development tools, so the cost is not as big of a deal for me, but definately agree with the views of others. Especially the users that have supported this software for years and BV.

I believe templates are absolutely mandatory. While I have development experience, I want to start from decent samples as I don't have the time to try and understand the gaps in the documentation which was my initial frustration using GC.

Recently, I have been using Unity and although I prefer the UI in GC, you can't beat the tutorials and great documentation. With relatively little knowledge, you can get going without needing any help from others.

I am in the process of writing about a 150 page technical design for a project that I am working on. At the end of this project, it is expected that my team will provide detailed user documentation. It is not only expected, it's in the contract.

I figure I will revisit this tool when it is ready and it will be a hard sell to get me to spend more money on GC 3, when I haven't even really been able to move with 2.5.

Lastly, be more responsive to your clients, I browse the forum from time to time out of curiosity and see so many unanswered questions. People like myself with very little knowledge of game design will take a bit longer to get frustrated, but the skilled users will not even bother. This is only my opinion and directed at management.

[BigDaz]

So it's been a couple of months.. any news? 

[Architex]

So I'm back with 1 more comment.  You know?  Back in the day ( I think it was BV ) they had some video of some kind of 'zombie' soccer demo, how come we couldn't have something like that?  AI/animations or whatever. 

[ddesmond]

I actually purchased Unity pro v3 and am very happy with it. I have been able to progress much further. There are more tutorials/demos available and I can use C# which I know very well.  I love the drag and drop GUI features, easy to relate code to an object. I am just trying to get my blender modelling skills up with the new version. I am working on a tutorial from blender cookie which is great, takes you through creating a complete character with accessories. Since I have a gc license, I will check back from time to time, but am moving forward with Unity 3d.