To everyone and noone

[pixel_legolas]

Just wanted to random rant a bit. Feels like gamecore is slowly dying and I hate it to be se. Lack of info, updates, active projects and forum activity makes it feel like a dying project.

I hate to see it this way because I have been following GC and BV for a while and don't use anything else. I don't want to switch because I see the potential.

I just have no idea what to do to make people start getting more active. I could of course make a uber cool example but I also have time and stress against me.

I remember when I got BV and had the examples. I feel that the template examples provided now are nothing compared to what we got at that time.  A cool soldier that could actually run around and kill enemies, whille enemies where shooting at you. Houses that could be destroyed, a cool buggy demo etc.

Now it's more technical but not as entertaining as before. Of course it should be our responsibility to use the techs in the templates and create some nice ourselves. But I think that this is the key to making people actually start using GC more. Having really nice thought-through examples that can be modded more easy would greatly increase activity.

More guides on customization is needed. People don't want the lego-man or soldier once they know their idea.
Many probably don't even know how to change a character, or how to make another weapon stick to their character. This is something that should be easy as 1-2-3.

I don't know if you are writing new stuff but I think it is time to ask the community what we want included in a nice template. I have for example wanted someting RPG similar since day 1.

Level system, picking up stuff, etc. It doesn't even have to be a inventory that you can move on. Maybe just picking up a sword auto changes that sword in hand and increases stats etc.

I just think that many people open a template, tries and then thinks "now what, what should I do next?" Lack of documentation makes most people just move a tree, import a stone and place it.

I have come quite far with studying scripts and examples and going from BV to GC was an advantage because the code in BV was simpler to read/understand. It has just become a little more complicated but of course better.

I still have plans in my head and a goal to create a complete RPG game sometime in the future, but I would like to see more activity in the forum.

I know there are many good programmers, good 3d modelers etc that could be combined into a force.

We should create a good community based game to share so people will see the potential.

I will stick to GC as long as it is alive and I really do hope it will stay living. I know gekido group is doing games and have alot to do already, they cannot only focus on updating GC because they must also create games.

But some key-features are misssing according to me.

ok, here stops the random rant and I hope to get some enery in this and the community have something to say.

Keep on believing in your dreams guys

[LutinMalefique]

i'm also using BV and GC since the beginning and it's true that the community is not very active (i'm one of them).

The lack of documentation was always a problem but  i also think that the creation of a mega-script (network charactor) is not the best means to learn. I prefer doing my scripts from scratch, it takes more time but i can understand every process.

A big template, like the racing one, is good to understand how every part of game have to be set but  I shall suggest to separate every basics actions (how a player can control an object, pickup, fire, change a level, start a cutscene, etc...)

ps: I was a little disappointed by the quality of objects supplied by the racing template: few and not always of quality (in particular the car which is squalid). I do not claim to give lessons of modelling and texturing but i was really disappointed.

[Steely Dane]

Dude, I feel you...some days I feel like I'm the only one on here, and I check in 2-4 times a day...

That was  the idea I had with posting my continual progress on my project that I'm doing based around the Vibe course, so that straight up n00bs can feel like they can actually accomplish something with this engine (I know my models aren't exactly n00b quality, but that is irrelavent... ).
I'm trying to believe that everybody is too busy toiling away at their projects to post, but I also have been accused of being a dreamer.....

I know both of you guys have got to have something to show for your efforts (Lutin, didn't you have a shoot 'em up up and running? How about more on that project and how you did it?...maybe post an open file of it so others could use it as a template?). I've been doing my best to post as many links to different resources (sound effects, textures, etc...) because I'm not far along enough to get some game action happening, but it will be by April.
In the beginning there were quite a few on here promoting their projects, but they all seemed to just disappear...Shaolin_bboy, Big daz, Squat, Hikmayan....you guys all had projects you were working on....where the hell did you guys go? I see your posts from time to time, but no real examples with the exception of Big Daz's helicopter...and nothing new in Shaolin's project (which has it's own forum for crying out loud) since exactly one year ago today.
Ron is up and running, but we don't see him around much either, anymore and no real heads up on any advances made with Haulin' Azz....
There were a few others but they just stopped posting..I can't believe GC was so unuseable that everyone switched to Unity or something else, so what is it?

We as the GC community kind of have to take it on ourselves to make it into a community.
Bitching about no one contributing, including Gekido Group/Helios, ain't gonna fix it or make it happen.
I get the feeling that when someone figures something out the hard way, and it took them hours, days, or even weeks, they aren't terribly interested in posting it up because they feel they shouldn't give away such a hard won secret....I can sympathise with that attitude, but it isn't helpful to anyone as it does nothing to enhance the group knowledge of this engine.
I'm sure that isn't the case for everyone, but I'd lay money on it that some do.

As my project moves along I plan on sharing how I did stuff, unless it gives away a Vibe secret that is included in the Interactive Framework (that was part of the agreement, and besides, that info didn't come free, I PAID for it).
But everything else from rigging to texturing, what software I used, and anything that is covered in the tutorials but not extensively enough is fair game...I'll even spill the beans on how I modeled something in particular, got a certain sound effect, etc. if someone is asking.

Something that I have noticed about other forums I've been on, is that they may be active with massive amounts of posts, but really, there are only 5-10 die hards that post every day. There are a lot of people that join, then post once every month or less...as in any community, there are the De Facto leaders, and a whole bunch of others that wait for them to show the way, or do the work so they can enjoy it with minimal effort.
Kinda sucks, but that's the way it has been since time immemorial....
The only question is which would you rather be?

[Steely Dane]

One other thing concerning sharing discoveries.
Someone will inevitably say, "If no one asks a particular question, how can it be addressed/answered/blah, blah, blah".
Well, who cares if the question gets asked by someone else?
Ask it yourself and answer it yourself.
Example:
You decide you're going to figure out how to make smoke shoot out of a characters butt when ever he starts to run.
You spend 3 days buggering around and finally get it to work properly.
Yay!!!, so frigging proud of yourself, you have smoke shooting out of your own butt, and you tell all of your friends at work, who mostly ignore you or just smile and nod because they don't understand one word you said.
Now what do you do?
A:Screenie an example and post it on the forum telling everyone how long it took, but not how you did it, unless someone specifically asks you?

B:Tell no one on the forum because it's your discovery and to hell with everyone else?

C:Go on the forum and say"Hey everybody, look at this sh#t ! Can anyone else do this? No? Well here's how I did it, and while I'm at it, here's a couple of other discoveries I made when I screwed up the first 378 times I tried....."

Personally I have many questions that I don't even know how to ask without sounding like a moron.
And I'm sure there are many I don't even know I should be asking.
So, yeah...just a thought experiment.....

[BigDaz]

I still visit out of habit but I haven't done anything in GC for months now. I'm spending my time learning Unreal, it's a heck of a learning curve but I think ultimately it'll be worth it. The benefits are pretty obvious. Unreal gets updated once a month while GC gets updated once a year. There's tutorials and resources in abundance. I'm finding it a bit hard to justify persevering with GameCore.

[Steely Dane]

I'll bet the first ones who tried to make a full game using Unreal said the same thing when it first became available...in fact:

"In the early days, we'd play around with Epic's engine just to see how it might have solved problems with tools, interface, etc. I always felt the tools were clunky, but in hindsight, it's probably no more than what I was used to. Over the years, the change has been phenomenal. The toolset has evolved into a mature, robust, and flexible total solution." -  Spicy Horse, American Mcgee Creative Director

Ultimately it is your decision whether to switch engines or not, and that should be respected.
I just think that it is unfair to criticize GC in it's infancy (Which it is. Beyond Virtual was more like a proof of concept IMO ), when all of the other engines that are being hyped as better have had far more development time and were already tried and tested by the company that made the original Unreal game , and then built on it for years, slowly, by adding mod tools, etc.
GC seem to be going at it ass backwards, releasing the engine then building a game on it (Combat:Spec. op.).

That being said, the team at Gekido/Helios could be more forthcoming with the update schedule, as in, are more coming and when?
We had a good momentum going with a whole bunch of video tuts released at once, but now it's ground to a halt again.

[pixel_legolas]

Personally I will probably not touch a gameengine that need like 10DVDs to exlain how to actually use it. If so many tutorials are needed then I say it is not user friendly, and thus nothing for me.

I think GC could be a bit mroe user-friendly with more scripts. You just add an object and connect a script, it is that easy now but very limited. We have a "rotate object" script and a "make it explode and switch to a broken" script etc.

But more of this. I know I am just whining and I really want to contribute. Latest thing I tried and gave up on was attaching a sword to player, and it actually worked. Then I took a physics box and finally was able to hit it with the attached sword. I then tried to connect the exploding script so when sword hits box it ultimately explodes. But I just gave up because it needed so much modding without me knowing anything. I guess we could ahve more discussions around these specific matters but it feels it sometimes takes days to get an answer and by then you have lost hope or interest.

I think we need good people that are active more in the forum, both users and employees.

Well time for me to soon put up something here, a contibution so I feel that I give and not only ask

[Jim]

If you've been following GameCore since the early days of BV then you should remember this sort of thing as being a reoccurring trend. The thread that pops up and says the community is dead GameCore is going to vanish. Here's an example http://www.gamecore3d.com/forums/index.php/topic,710.0.html

It's not going anywhere except forward though.

I only do game creation related stuff as a hobby, so I get sidetracked quite often. I don't post a lot.  I don't really see how community activity really reflects on the life of the engine. Helios hasn't even really marketed the engine yet.

The best way to get more community activity is by doing it yourself though, start posting about everything... I don't know, it's always been a small community, and GameCore hasn't gone away. The naysayers of the forum have, but that doesn't seem like a big loss. I can continue working on my project with out concern for how many posts are here... If I needed help I could ask, and likely the people sticking around are the more knowledgeable dedicated ones so I'd probably have a better chance with an answer.

I dunno, just my 2 cents.

[pixel_legolas]

yeah I know that mostly when people are getting stressed and say nothing happens with GC....BAM...an new major update comes and everyone is hallelujah.

But, we have lost a couple of important people according to me that did alot for the engine.

As stated before I am "quite" active but will try to be more so by contributing with stuff, but life also takes to much to for me to dig deep. I will however prioritize GC a bit more and really try to do something. By helping myself I also help the community if posting stuff

[gamecreator]

I put in stand by the GC too, sence many feutures need, and have many bugs to fix.

In the moment i have , and i?m learning the Toque 3D and UDK 2010 beta.

The gameCore 3D is Good But need more examples, GameEngine interface Better, and reduse confusing staff.
And to be better an ScriptBlock to GC is need for easy script programing.
Like 3dViaVirtools.
If the GC have the same interface like DX STUDIO better, and better pathfinding and waypoint editor.

[JimB]

I have been here since Beyond Virtual and everyone agreed BV had great potential but since GameCore everthing got slow and sluggish shadows and shaders dont work in openGL,framerates in DX3D are very bad and tend to intoduce visible lag.
When I ask a question I get an enthusiastic "we'll sort it out" which usally ends up with a kind of "it works for us" sort of attitude.Then you ask when it worked for you using OpenGL did you get shadows and shaders the conversation kind of dies and I swear I could almost smell the sense of relief when I decided to move on. 

[LutinMalefique]

@Steely Dane : My shoot'em up is always on the way. I have some problems with npc's ai. I want to make spawn point (with controller settings that are common to all npc) which activates a specific npc when the player is near this one.
Posting codes with some explanations was not in my plan but I am going to reconsider this point when all the basics will work.

[Ransom]

I still check in at least once a month - sometimes more - just rarely post.  I've been really busy with work lately and haven't had any time to work on GC.

[ddesmond]

This is a very interesting thread, I orignally purchased gamecore because the interface was great and not havin a gaming background, I thought it was going to be great.  But realistically workin as an IT consultant and constantly learning and being challenged, I want something a little easier. When my son goes to bed and I have my private computer time, I really want a complete game fps tutorial. I don't care if the graphics are great, its more about something basic/complete to start with. Trying to do this casually at this point has been too time consuming. My grinding and hard core research are drained when I leave the office, so for me to take GC seriously, a fps working tutorial is required. Everybody has different constraints, but for me on my leisure time, I want faster results. Then I can mod and concentrate on models.

[Ron]

Ron is up and running, but we don't see him around much either, anymore and no real heads up on any advances made with Haulin' Azz....

I'm still here and kicken , I check the forum every day still. My big pickle was I had to go back to my daily job (machine design), but I still work on my game, just updates are a bit further between. Also waiting on 2.0.6 before I release a update, for some reason I cannot get multiplayer going with 2.0.5 and I could back with RC2. Also, I think the AA and my graphics card might get along better in 2.0.6 when it comes.

My mistake is I feel victim to not listening to my own advice. I always recommend do not bite off more than you can handle. I have to keep fighting my own internal instinct to try to make a perfect game vs reality of being only one person. 

I'm really looking forward to the next release. I still stand by that nothing compares to GC at any price in the ability and natural work flow to get your game done, it just takes time and patience to learn.